Interview by Jennifer Walden, photos courtesy of Sundance Institute; Andy Hay
Director Sean Wang’s film Dìdi – in US Dramatic Competition at Sundance 2024 and one recipient of the Dolby Institute Fellowship (providing for a final mix in Dolby Atmos) – tells the tale of an impressionable 13-year-old Taiwanese American boy, who spends his 2008 summer vacation learning what his family can’t teach him: how to skate, how to flirt, and how to love your mom.
Dìdi‘s supervising sound editor/re-recording mixer Andy Hay – at Formosa Group – spent just five weeks editing and mixing the film. For Hay, the truncated schedule compelled him to go with his gut to great effect. They didn’t have time to second-guess creative ideas, such as using the sounds of a keyboard/mouse/scroll wheel to convey the protagonist’s emotions as he’s chatting with friends online. Instead, they made quick decisions on what could work, and spent time perfecting key aspects (like the skateboard videos) that needed to be ‘right.’
Here, Hay talks about dir. Wang’s enthusiastic approach to filmmaking, how they took full advantage of the Atmos surround field for this slice-of-life story, how they handled the punky skateboard sections, how they supported the story’s emotion with sound, and much more!
I watched a short film by Director Sean Wang, called H.A.G.S. (Have a Good Summer), in which he reaches out to some of his pals who’d signed his yearbook. It’s so fun and inventive!
‘Dìdi’ Director Sean Wang
Andy Hay (AH): It is! And this movie for Sundance Dìdi has elements that are similar in tone. This is a feature so it’s more fleshed out and takes you on a bigger journey, but I fell in love with Sean’s aesthetic from watching his short films.
He’s made a couple of shorts. One of his most recent is Nǎi Nai & Wài Pó, which is a story of his two grandmothers, and it has earned a 2024 Oscar nomination for ‘BEST DOCUMENTARY SHORT FILM.’
Sean is really smart, effervescent, joyous, and just a great young dude with real talent.
From L to R: Claire Loudis (post producer), Sean Wang (writer/director), Andy Hay (re-recording mixer/sound supervisor), Carlos Lopez Estrada (producer), and Valerie Bush (producer)
Dìdi was one of the Dolby Institute Fellowship Recipients this year, which provides for the film to be mixed in Atmos. How did mixing in Atmos make an impactful difference for Dìdi? Can you share some specific examples of how or where in the film Atmos made the biggest difference?
AH: Yeah, we did, which is nice because Dolby similarly got involved with Blindspotting – a film we finished in 2018. I met Glenn Kiser back then, and he came out to watch the printmaster for Dìdi. He’s fantastic, and it’s great that Dolby cares enough to get involved, to be supportive, and to offer this opportunity to indie filmmakers.
They genuinely care about, and recognize new talent – their selection is very targeted and based on their assessment of real talent that deserves to be nurtured, which is lovely.
Dìdi is a real, honest slice-of-life coming-of-age story, so the sound is predominately realistic. You want to be there with those characters, so we keep a lot of the action on screen in that sense, but we used Atmos objects for a couple of cool abstract moments. One, in particular, is a drug trip sequence that makes full use of objects, with immersive music coming up and around you, and circular panning of dragons and a talking squirrel. We got to flex our muscles there with the use of the Atmos system. Having full range surrounds with precise linear and height panning is such a joy to work with.
…we gave him a level of expertise that opened his eyes to new possibilities in terms of what can be achieved in the mix.
This was a fun experience for Sean because I think this was the first endeavor for him where he’s had more time in the mix than he’s used to. We did edit and mix it very quickly (we had five weeks from turnover to printmaster) but we gave him a level of expertise that opened his eyes to new possibilities in terms of what can be achieved in the mix.
There was very much a sense of joy coming from him. He sat next to me at the console the whole time. He was fully engaged and enjoying the process, of seeing what’s possible. He was coming up with ideas on the fly, things we should try as together we shaped and sculpted the mix, and there was this sense of play as we worked. It’s really fun and gratifying when you find yourself to be in sync with the director chasing a common goal.
How did Director Wang want to use sound as a storytelling tool for Dìdi? What were some of his initial ideas for sound? And what were some creative sound ideas that you wanted to contribute to the film?
AH: On the first read-through of the script, it’s clear the protagonist Wang Wang (a kid on summer break between middle and high school) is going through a series of learnings. During that summer, everything gets challenged – his friendships, his relationship with his family, a new love interest, and his sense of self. The intent was to craft three different worlds that would support his state of mind as he progresses through these various learning experiences. The real world, the mundane online world of AIM, Myspace, and Facebook, and the fantastical, stylized, super-subjective world.
The film takes place in Fremont, Northern California 2008. The real world is American suburbia at its finest – backyard pool parties, public parks, mall parking lots for skating, etc.. Then, there’s this mundane computer world in his bedroom: AOL instant messenger, Myspace, and the migration over to Facebook. And finally, some subjective stylized moments when we’re clearly in Wang Wang’s head.
We can read the words he’s typing, but here we had an opportunity to play his emotion through how he types…
In this mundane computer world, it’s full bleed computer screen. We’re just looking at what he’s looking at. We have those iconic AOL notification sounds: the message sent and received chimes, and the door open and close sounds as people sign on/sign off of messenger. They’re great cultural touchstones of that era. We hear the computer fan, his keyboard, mouse clicks, and the mouse scroll wheel. Very early on, we knew we wanted to use that world as a character voice because the audience is just seeing his typing on-screen. We can read the words he’s typing, but here we had an opportunity to play his emotion through how he types, how he moves the mouse, and how he scrolls.
When he’s excited, his keystrokes are messy. He’s pounding on the spacebar, and he’s whipping the mouse around. Then, when the new love interest is online, there’s a level of excitement but he’s much more direct and clear in his typing versus the sloppy, chatting-with-friends typing. There’s a degree of hesitation in the way that he moves his mouse. The scroll wheel goes “tick, tick, tick” more slowly. He’s excited yet nervous and trying to play it cool. Similarly, there’s a moment where he’s super bummed out and he feels like he’s fucked everything up, and he’s lost everything. His keystrokes are slow and sad, contemplative and quiet.
It’s a prime example that there’s opportunity in simplicity and how that can contribute a lot in terms of how you emote via sound.
It’s interesting because to me, as a mental exercise, when we were first talking about it during spotting we thought it was a great idea but I didn’t know if it was going to translate. Still, it was worth pursuing. So I worked with my foley team – Foley Walkers in Ukraine – that I use a lot for indie projects. We had a conversation about the keyboard and mouse sounds being one of the key expressive elements in the storytelling. They gave me five different options for keyboard/mouse/scroll wheel, and I picked the ones I thought were going to be the most expressive. They did an incredible job of interpreting the notes and delivering sounds that carried a significant amount of weight in terms of storytelling.
It’s a prime example that there’s opportunity in simplicity and how that can contribute a lot in terms of how you emote via sound.
Can you talk about the skateboarding aspects of the film? What did that require in terms of sound?
AH: The skateboarding and skate culture was another important aspect of the film. Sean grew up in that environment. He is a skater through and through, and very particular about how skateboards sound.
Our production mixer was awesome so we got great-sounding stuff from production. We had foley do a pass as well, and their stuff came out great.
There are a few characteristics of the skateboards that dictate how they sound – their weight, length, type of wheels, etc.
There are a few characteristics of the skateboards that dictate how they sound – their weight, length, type of wheels, etc. that Sean was very much dialed into. So on the stage, we added more weight by pitching sounds down and adding EQ. We did a fair bit of tinkering with the skateboard elements to get them to feel as authentic as possible.
Another part of the storyline is that this kid advertises himself as being a “filmer” – someone who films skateboard videos. This is a huge component of skateboard culture: making your own videos to share online, using those videos to find deals in terms of promotion and getting sponsorship, or kids at home watching skateboard videos and learning from one another, the music you paste on top of your skateboard video allowing for the sharing and discovery of new music, and so on.
We had to have that right balance of skateboard sounds to the rest of the environment – how those skateboard sounds would be picked up by the camcorder’s microphone…
The task for us was to make all of that feel authentic and of that time of 2008. That meant taking all the elements we had from production and also from sound effects, foley, ADR, and group, and putting those all inside of an appropriate camcorder from that era.
We had to have that right balance of skateboard sounds to the rest of the environment – how those skateboard sounds would be picked up by the camcorder’s microphone – the compression and distortion and EQ. There was a fair bit of education on my part by watching these skateboard videos to understand how the technology of that era handled recording the sound of up-close skateboards.
We needed to nail that because, for Sean, it’s a huge touch point for him because it’s so much a part of his personal history. He wanted it to feel as accurate as possible so that it reaches those folks in the audience and hits them in the right place.
I remember watching skate videos as a teenager, like Landspeed: CKY and Big Brother – Sh*t. They had a definite look and sound to them, a particular style…
AH: The movie is a bit punk rock in those moments. It’s a dynamic mix. There are some really sweet, intimate quiet moments, and in contrast, there are these bombastic, super fun moments with the skater kids, and also a couple of parties with big source music. When we go big, we don’t hold back. There’s a punk aesthetic so we gave ourselves that freedom.
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What about the quieter, family-oriented moments? How did you use sound there?
AH: There’s one particular scene towards the end of the film; it’s a peak emotional moment. We stripped everything out, very consciously slowly getting rid of all the birds and creature sounds, traffic, etc. that were in the lead-up to that moment so that it wouldn’t be a huge shock and you’d gently land in this space where all you’re hearing is room tone and production dialogue.
That’s the hard stuff to do because you can’t hide behind anything. Every line of dialogue, every gentle footstep, every clothing rustle has to be super dialed in and right on point. You have to be very particular and careful in your noise reduction technique so that it plays as evenly as possible; you don’t have the luxury of hiding behind BGs. It’s a fun challenge to get those things to play successfully. I somewhat masochistically enjoy that process.
Just let the moment play, get out of the way, and don’t interfere with what’s happening on-screen with the amazing performances.
In those quiet moments, you have to trust in being able to just play the silence, and delicately fill in every little movement, every little foley detail very carefully as needed. We have a couple of moments in the film like that. So again, it’s just being very meticulous in the edit and the mix to get it to play, and to sit in effectively pure silence. Just let the moment play, get out of the way, and don’t interfere with what’s happening on-screen with the amazing performances. So for me, it’s about getting the dialogue to play so we can hear every nuance that’s in that dialogue track from the day. Then, just lean out and don’t clutter it.
It’s important to me to share knowledge so that we all benefit in our careers.
I have to mention one of the sound effects editors on the film, sound designer Jackie! Zhou. She and Sean worked together on H.A.G.S.. She was instrumental in bringing some of the sound design and sound effects to the film. Like Sean, she’s young and has great instincts. I’ve been able to help guide her a bit in terms of delivering sounds to a stage – how to organize things a certain way, why we have different predub groups, etc. It’s been really cool to witness her enthusiasm and to help shepherd her a little bit as well. It’s important to me to share knowledge so that we all benefit in our careers.
Where did you mix the film?
AH: We printmastered at Paramount on Stage 4, which is a nice big stage that I’m very familiar with. We mixed in a medium-sized room at my friend John Warren’s place over at Esho in Burbank, which is where I mix a lot of indie projects. He has a great facility. It’s a smaller room that translates really well. John is continually tinkering and improving his stage. It’s got a great zen-vibe and clients really love being there.
When we brought the mix to printmaster on the big stage, Sean was blown away.
When we brought the mix to printmaster on the big stage, Sean was blown away. It was fun to watch him get so enthused by the scale and how the sound was hitting him. He said, “It’s like watching the movie for the first time” That moment right there just validates the entire experience for me. I knew then and there that we’d done our job correctly and that the film was going to reach his audience as he intended.
What makes the sound of Dìdi unique, or what was unique about your experience of working on this film?
AH: The uniqueness is just the experience of getting through a film from top to tail – from turnover through printmaster – in five weeks. That’s pretty unique for me these days as I’m typically working with much longer feature schedules.
When you’re faced with this crazy schedule, it forces you to think less and to be more in the moment…
When you’re faced with this crazy schedule, it forces you to think less and to be more in the moment, to just instinctively go with your gut on what you’re hearing and what you’re feeling and to run with it. Don’t get lost in second-guessing every sound choice, or spending way too much time trying way too many things. It’s go time! Rely more on your gut and less on your noggin.
A big thanks to Andy Hay for giving us a behind-the-scenes look at the sound of Dìdi and to Jennifer Walden for the interview!
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