Behind the Meticulously Crafted Sound of ‘Wolfs’ – with Paul Urmson and Chris Scarabosio

Action-comedy film Wolfs – streaming exclusively on Apple TV+ – follows two lone-wolf fixers (played by George Clooney and Brad Pitt) who are hired for the same job. Their egos initially prevail, but to survive the night, the two must figure out how to work together. Here, sound supervisor/re-recording mixer Paul Urmson and re-recording mixer Chris Scarabosio talk about their collaboration with Director Jon Watts to craft a precise, planned-out soundtrack that's uniquely told from specific characters' perspectives. They discuss their approach to handling the intentionally overlapping dialogue, designing a crazy chase sequence, building a tension-filled wedding reception, and much more!

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Interview by Jennifer Walden, photos courtesy of Apple TV+ Press; Paul Urmson; Chris Scarabosio

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Collaboration can be challenging for those used to working alone, especially when massive egos are involved. That’s the premise of Director Jon Watts’s action-comedy film Wolfs – streaming exclusively on Apple TV+. Two fixers, played by George Clooney and Brad Pitt, get hired for the same ‘clean-up’ job. Each believes their approach is correct and that the other is incompetently one step behind. They talk over each other and try to out-maneuver each other, but they ultimately find they have more in common than not.

Collaboration might have been an issue for the film’s protagonists, but certainly not for the film’s sound team. Director Watts and picture editor Andrew Weisblum had very exact ideas for telling the story through sound; they needed meticulous editing and mixing. So, they tapped sound supervisor/re-recording mixer Paul Urmson at Warner Bros. Post Production Creative Services in New York, who initially worked with re-recording mixer Skip Lievsay through the temp mix. Later, after a new score was delivered, re-recording mixer Christopher Scarabosio at Skywalker Sound stepped in to handle the film’s dialogue and music post-temp through to the final mix.

Here, Urmson and Scarabosio talk about working with director Watts to achieve the precise, planned-out soundtrack he and editor Weisblum envisioned – working on scenes shot by shot to hit each sound moment, telling the story from specific characters’ perspectives, and heightening the comedy, action, or tension each moment required. They talk about recording a large group of dancers as foley for the nightclub/wedding reception scene, working with sound recordist Rob Nokes and sound designer Craig Henighan to create Clooney’s BMW, editing overlapping dialogue to obscure or reveal plot points, and so much more!

WOLFS — Official Trailer | Apple TV+

The film starts with shots of the city and sound tells the story that something distressing is happening. Can you talk about building that sequence? What did dir. Jon Watts want the audience to know and how did you help communicate that through sound?

Paul Urmson (PU): Jon and picture editor Andrew Weisblum had very specific ideas about sound from the beginning. When we spotted the movie in June of ’23, they had a well-planned out idea of what they wanted. In that opening scene, even though we’re outside the apartment, we always wanted the perspective to be with the character. So you hear her cry out, the glass smash, and all that stuff from her perspective. Even though it’s a distant shot of the city, they didn’t want to hear a lot of cityscapes. It’s very light. Most of what you hear is from her perspective inside the apartment. So when we go into the apartment, you’re still in that same world of what’s happened to her.

They wanted the sound to always be from the perspective of the character. It was always about what the character is hearing, where they are, and what’s going on with them.

The same thing happens later in that same scene when she calls George Clooney’s character. George is in the phone booth in the bar. The whole idea was to hear what George hears inside the booth, even though we’re tracking in through the bar. His voice is the dominant thing and everything else is hushed and muted.

They wanted the sound to always be from the perspective of the character. It was always about what the character is hearing, where they are, and what’s going on with them. That was an idea from the beginning. And throughout the whole movie, Jon and Andy were very specific about what they wanted to do and we pretty much fleshed out the whole thing in the first temp in August ’23. We got very specific in that temp. It was a long temp mix, and we kept adding material, being very diligent about what we were adding. Is this helping? Is this not helping? It was very mannered, detailed work on that temp mix.

That first sequence was about trying to internalize the character’s distress…

Christopher Scarabosio (CS): Skip Lievsay did that work. He started the project and worked through it. Then, Jon went with a different composer and the schedule was pushed later so Skip wasn’t available. That is how I got involved.

That first sequence was about trying to internalize the character’s distress and trying to make the opening of the story unfold so the audience doesn’t know what has happened and reveal it in a really fun way.

There’s a scene after the ‘Wolfs’ – George Clooney and Brad Pitt – find the drugs in the backpack and they’re on the phone with the hotel owner. Both are talking at once. It’s meant to be unintelligible and confusing, so even as one tries to talk over the other, their levels stay the same relative to each other. Can you talk about your approach to the dialogue mix here?

CS: That was exactly it. Here are two lone-wolf fixers who think they’re the best at what they do and the only person who does what they do. They’re talking over each other because, in their minds, they’re completely right. They don’t want to hear anything from anyone else.

Usually, we try to fight to hear a little bit of each character, but in this instance, we don’t want to hear anything but a bunch of words…

Usually, we try to fight to hear a little bit of each character, but in this instance, we don’t want to hear anything but a bunch of words and these two guys trying to assert their dominance over each other. Then as that scene evolves, they start talking to their relative handlers and that’s when we start hearing bits of each of the conversations while we’re still hearing both of them talk. We are in that situation where you hear part of George Clooney and then you hear part of Brad Pitt and you go back and forth. But in that first conversation, we don’t want to specifically hear what they’re saying. We just want to hear them both trying to say that I’m right and you’re wrong.

The kid is revived and makes a run for it through the city in his underwear. There’s a scene where George Clooney hits him with the car and the kid bounces off over the top and lands on his feet. Can you talk about your sound edit and mix for this scene?

PU: We went crazy with that whole sequence. He jumps over the car because he’s so jacked up that he’s got a superhuman leaping ability or something. We tried this crazy time stretch of his voice screaming as he’s going over the car. Skip did a version that was crossfading between different takes of the kid screaming, and then I did a version where I used these very long reverbs to try to make an infinite sustain of his voice as he’s going over. We wanted it to modulate humorously in certain parts. For instance, when he goes a little higher, there’s a whole pitch shift device going on through that. He did perform it that way. But then we helped it along a bit with some pitch shifting and it was nuts.

Skip did a version that was crossfading between different takes of the kid screaming, and then I did a version where I used these very long reverbs to try to make an infinite sustain of his voice…

We played with that for so long. We kept going back and forth between different versions. What we ended up with was pretty close to what we had early on, which was a time-stretched, reverbed voice.

Then on each shot, I worked with Andy on getting the details just right, like, in this shot his foot is scraping the hood so we have a little sound and then his thigh hits the windshield and we have this big flabby meaty sound. Wind elements are coming and going to pan each shot. When we go to Brad’s reactions, it has a slightly different perspective. And all through it is this crazy scream that we shaped throughout the whole thing.

CS: There was a lot of time and detail spent on that sequence.

PU: That whole sequence took a while. The only music in there is a snare drum roll. They wanted it to be almost like a circus, like trapeze artists. When he lands, there’s a big cymbal smash.

That chase sequence with the kid goes on for a long time! What were some of your challenges or opportunities for sound during that?

PU: Again, Jon and Andy had very specific ideas. We literally went through shot by shot – this is where we want to hear this and this is where we want to hear that. It’s very specific in how we did it. We made sure nothing was hanging over any of the cuts. We tried to make each shot have its own perspective and its own sound event happening. It was exacting work.

…Jon and Andy had very specific ideas. We literally went through shot by shot…

CS: There was new score here and we wanted to investigate all the textures. We were finding elements of the score – big synth parts, oddball sounds, and a lot of percussion – that we could accentuate cut to cut. We shifted things subtly and massively to carve out every bit of every element to achieve the excitement and suspense of that scene.

And cutting a lot of car sounds too, right? Because George Clooney is in his car during the chase…

PU: We recorded that BMW and did a lot of maneuvers with it. That car has a great sound. We made some great recordings with sound effects recordist Rob Nokes in Los Angeles and sound designer Craig Henighan. Craig did a lot of work on those car effects. They did a really beautiful job with the car.

We made some great recordings with sound effects recordist Rob Nokes in Los Angeles and sound designer Craig Henighan…did a lot of work on those car effects.

Again, for every shot we had specific directions on what car sound to hear. On one shot, we want to hear a wet car-by because it’s supposed to be snowing and winter and wet. The next shot we go back to the engine and then we have a little more engine here and then we hear the shifter. It was very granular in that sense, very specific to each shot and each event.

There are all kinds of little details, like every time Brad Pitt runs through the hallways of the underground mall, you hear his keys jingling because he’s still got that fob on his keys (that was established earlier in the parking garage.) Every time you see the kid you hear his wet socks. All those little details we really tried to make poke through. Every surface was explored. First, he’s running with wet socks on asphalt, then tile, then through mud, and now on a metal gangplank.

As the kid is running, you hear all the efforts he made during production.

CS: As the kid is running, you hear all the efforts he made during production. That track was fairly noisy so I cleaned it up. Jon wanted to hear those and get them through to keep the comedic element going. He made some pretty funny efforts as he was running.

PU: He did some great stuff. That kid was amazing.

The ‘Wolfs’ and the kid go to the wedding reception at the nightclub. Can you talk about your approach to creating the crowd? Also, the mix here seemed like it would be tough in regards to music and making the score and dance tracks work together…

CS: That was a big moment for sure because of the celebratory dance piece we get into later in the scene.

The source music playing when we first get to the venue (as the kid is trying to find the pager) is quite loud, so he’s yelling to the bartender to hand him the pager. We were very specific with what we hear, and what we don’t hear. The kid is oblivious, right? We’re following him around and rooting for him but we know that he’s probably in deep shit.

…we were being very specific about the dance sounds – the shoe hits, the dance moves, and the hand claps.

The music plays a big part. We hand off the source music to the score, which leads into the dance piece, which is a whole sound moment. Again, we were being very specific about the dance sounds – the shoe hits, the dance moves, and the hand claps. We were trying to build up to the climax where Brad Pitt and George Clooney pull guns on each other. We spent a lot of time building each moment to try and heighten the whole thing.

PU: In terms of crowd, we had very specific rules about what we heard, and from whose perspective. It was very much, “Okay, this is George’s shot. This is what he’s hearing from that perspective. Now we’re on Brad, and he’s on the opposite side of the room, but he’s looking over at the kid. Now we’re on the kid.”

We did all of this weaving of all the crowd sounds and had different things happening. It’s all subtle, like a little laughter, a little thing, but it’s all trying to play in different character perspectives.

That foley was done by a big group of dancers who were watching the film and doing the moves.

We did find that the music really carries the scene. It’s all about that score delivering us first to the pager when we first pan over and see it behind the bar. So at a certain point, we were like, “Okay, now we’ve told the crowd story. We know we’re at a big wedding. Let’s just back off with all that and let the music take us on the journey.”

The crowds don’t come back until George and Brad get captured by the dancers and are dragged into the dance. Then we played all of the feet. That foley was done by a big group of dancers who were watching the film and doing the moves. It sounded really nice and big. We had a lot of tracks of the dancing so we could get really big with it.

That’s cool! Where did you record the dancers?

PU: We recorded that in Los Angeles on a big soundstage. It had a nice big space to move around in and we had a lot of microphones. We could get close-ups of their feet and we had some wider mics picking up the room. We did the hand-clapping that way as well.

We could get close-ups of their feet and we had some wider mics picking up the room. We did the hand-clapping that way as well.

That sequence stayed pretty much the same from early on in the cut. They did specific blocking for that dance. There was maybe one little lift in there but it was pretty much locked down from August until we finished the film a year later.

In terms of mixing, we push specific sounds to match each shot, and then let the music take over. It goes into that crazy slow-mo bit and we had some fun sound design in there, but it’s mainly music. At one point, we made it like a real rave, but we backed off on that a bit. It still builds up to that big point where the Wolfs pull their guns out.

CS: The fact that everything sounded so realistic really added to the tension.

The kid is at the drop, and it’s an ambush. After the Wolfs clean up outside, they hear something happening inside the building. It’s another off-screen opportunity to tell the story through sound. Can you talk about your sound work here?

PU: We had a lot of fun with a distant perspective on the guns and lots of reverbs, giving us that sense that there’s a whole gunfight going on in this warehouse.

As they get closer, it starts to die down and then a few stragglers come out. The last guy comes out and fires a final burst from his Uzi and the bullets ricochet all around and hit various things. It’s pretty ridiculous.

There’s a fun airbag sound – we used a whoopee cushion – and the bumper falls off.

The whole gunfight was nicely crafted. You don’t hear that outside gunfire until they give their final kill shots to the bodyguard guy. That whole sequence is, again, very specific shot by shot. Every shot has its own fun sound. The Wolfs are good, but they’re completely overpowered. Those guys have Uzis and they’re shooting up the car and the car is getting decimated. There’s a fun airbag sound – we used a whoopee cushion – and the bumper falls off. It’s definitely played for comedy. Then it’s all over. It’s quiet except for the hissing of the car’s radiator.

Then you hear this gun battle just finishing up back in the warehouse. The perspectives were very specifically mixed for that, so when they creep around the corner, it gets a little more real and then it ends by the time they get inside. All the death and destruction is over.

The BMW you recorded for the car maneuvers and engine sounds, did you get to shoot it up and smash it and record that for this scene?

PU: If only! No, it was all fun on the foley stage, smashing stuff and using props, recording air bursts, pitching ricochets and other sounds.

We didn’t get to shoot up a real car, but the bumper falling off is the real sound.

We didn’t get to shoot up a real car, but the bumper falling off is the real sound. That’s a production effect. It was funnier to have a little pathetic sound for this plastic bumper falling off of the BMW. That’s what it actually sounded like when it fell off.

Who was your foley team on Wolfs?

PU: We used Steve Baine in Toronto, who is great. Steve and his people did a fantastic job. Our sound designer Craig Henighan had worked with Steve on many projects, including Darren Aronofsky’s movies. They did beautiful natural-sounding foley.

Who ended up performing the leather jacket foley? Were there two different leather jackets – one for George and one for Brad?

PU: We did!

Yes, it’s two different leather jackets. One of them is my leather jacket. We did copious amounts of leather jacket movement. We got into this thing, like, when he turns his head, let’s have it go “ker-squeak.” It’s ridiculous. We never had to cover so much leather in a movie before.

CS: The amount of leather jacket detail is insane.

PU: They’re so cool that their jackets have a slightly different sound.

We had lots of tracks of leather.

The Wolfs get breakfast at a place in Brighton Beach, and they’re working out what they think happened that night and who they believe set this all up. Again, they’re talking over each but this time it’s easier to follow the thread of their conversation. Can you talk about your dialogue work here?

CS: This was all about hearing specific words at specific times – being chaotic but still being able to understand the thought process. The whole thread of them both realizing what’s happening and ending up at the lightbulb moment at the same time, we had to specifically craft that. This is an instance where EQ comes into play as well as panning. We’re shifting between whose thread we’re listening to, and one becomes a little brighter as the other person goes off a bit to the side speaker (so it’s less in the center). We were trying to build the momentum up to the moment when they realized, “Oh, shit, we’re screwed.”

The whole thread of them…ending up at the lightbulb moment at the same time, we had to specifically craft that.

We went through the scene dialogue-only quite a few times. It needed to play exactly how it was intended and conceived. The actors are doing their thing in their own cadence and finding all the right moments where each word pokes through took some time – making sure each character’s thread is informing the audience even though they are talking at the same time. It’s the opposite of what we did earlier in the film, where the whole idea was to not understand anything. The idea here is to figure it out with them.

What was your favorite moment for sound in the film? Why? What went into it?

PU: The hotel room scene is fantastic. That kid’s monologue is so wonderful. Just getting into that hotel room and the ambience we put in there – the moaning guys down the hall and all the bed creaks and then the bathroom with all the silly animal/jungle sounds when he flips the light on. The panther sound in there is a nod to Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy. We just went crazy and found fun safari sounds to put in there.

That whole sequence and the kid’s monologue are so perfect. The way his monologue ends and their reaction to it – that’s my favorite bit in the whole movie.

CS: That is pretty great. That whole moment of Brad and George in the hallway where they take a break and then go back in and grab the lamp…

PU: I got a chuckle out of it every time we would work on it.

CS: I liked how the wedding dance builds into the slow-motion moment full of danger and drama, then segues to Phil Collins’s “One MoreNight.” It’s the perfect “later at the wedding” song. To go from such an intense moment down to that song, like, “Everything is fine,” it’s subtle but it works so well.

What has stuck with you the most about your experience of working on the sound for Wolfs?

CS: I think the attention to detail between all departments, from all the work that Paul, Skip, and Craig did initially with Jon and Andy. The meeting of the minds between the picture and sound departments was very tight. When the score did come in, it worked well against all of that. It’s not a period piece, but in some ways, the synthy score worked really well. And the Sade songs are hilarious. It works so well.

The meeting of the minds between the picture and sound departments was very tight.

It’s a very entertaining film. Jon had such a great vision of what he wanted to create. Having Brad Pitt and George Clooney being the big stars, they seemed to have such a good time doing it and getting this new talent with the kid, all these elements just came together, seemingly effortlessly. But we know how much work it takes to create that illusion.

PU: It has this ’80s throwback vibe to it because those guys are supposed to be in their 60s so their musical tastes are probably a bit dated.

I agree with what Chris said completely. When we first met with Jon and Andy, they referenced After Hours as a big influence on the movie in terms of crazy stuff happening. It’s fun and light; it gets weird and scary and dark, but it’s also always fun. They were very specific about wanting to have this feeling that these guys clean up bad stuff and they’re in the underworld, but at the same time, you always want to be with them and it’s always going to be fun.

The dual monologues with Brad and George, those guys practiced that and figured out a way to say everything and end exactly together. That’s one take.

That was Jon’s directive from the get-go, to make it fun, to play up the humor, and to keep it light. Even though we’re going to put in all this very detailed stuff and they were very specific, they had great ideas from the start. We just went with that. We would try something new, we would play it for them, they would listen, and ask what we had before. Then they’d decide what was better. They wanted to be very concise, to not have too much stuff going on at any time – to keep it very elegant and the timing very specific. The dual monologues with Brad and George, those guys practiced that and figured out a way to say everything and end exactly together. That’s one take. They had some signal they gave each other and then they just go for it. It’s a real treat to hear them do that.

CS: You definitely hear them both rise in intensity.

PU: They’re playing off of each other. It’s fun to watch.

A big thanks to Paul Urmson and Christopher Scarabosio for giving us a behind-the-scenes look at the sound of Wolfs and to Jennifer Walden for the interview!

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