Interview by Jennifer Walden, photos courtesy of A24; Andy Neil
A24’s epic period drama The Brutalist earned 10 Oscar nominations, including one for “Best Picture.” The film follows a Hungarian-Jewish architect named László Tóth, who immigrates to America after WWII to rebuild his life. Toth has to start from scratch — find stable employment and residence, rebuild his respected career as a visionary architect, secure passage to America for his wife and niece, and help them settle into this new reality.
The London-based sound team — led by supervising sound editor/dialogue editor/re-recording mixer Steve Single (a 2023 BAFTA Film Award nominee for “Best Sound” on Tár) and sound designer/re-recording mixer Andy Neil (winner of 2005 MPSE Award for “Best Sound Editing in Foreign Features” on House of Flying Daggers) — used sound to expand the on-screen image, like extending the construction site in the hills in Doylestown, PA and adding a sense of massive scale to the marble quarry in Italy, and to expand László’s perception of reality. Their sound work also conveys the emotional state of László, who struggles to find his place in post-WWII America as an immigrant with no permanent residence, desperate for work, food, and supportive family (as his wife and niece were still abroad). The sound design and music weave together seamlessly and carry the weight of László’s experience in a heady, heavy, and at times chaotic soundscape.
Here, Neil talks about recording construction sounds using a RØDE NT-SF1 ambisonics mic to design the off-screen construction sounds, working with Single’s foreign language loop group recordings to build street crowds, using sound to foreshadow events like the train accident, and much more!
The Brutalist
The Brutalist | Official Teaser HD | A24
Sound designer/re-recording mixer Andy Neil
How did director Brady Corbet want to use sound to help tell this story?
Andy Neil (AN): Brady was keen on always expanding the world outside the frame. We were encouraged to be bold and to heighten the sound at times. Going in and out of László’s heroin use throughout the film gave us a bit of license to play on this.
We had a pass on a few sequences early on during the Director’s Cut, from the opening air raid sirens up through the traveling bus montage and also the dinner party sequence at the Van Buren Mansion with the hypnotic slow-motion cutaways. These sequences really helped to inform us of where we could go in the sonic world of the film.
The sound and music are so woven together in this film that it’s not always obvious what’s musical textures or what’s sound design textures. Did you get to hear composer Daniel Blumberg’s score while you were sound designing? Or, what did that process look like?
AN: We were very fortunate with Daniel having composed a lot of the music quite early so we had his temp tracks to work against. It made a real difference overall working with his work-in-progress score rather than temp tracks from another composer and then hearing a totally new score by the time we got to the final.
Likewise, for a few early sequences we worked on, Daniel had our first pass for reference. When he heard what we had done for the opening, he added brass to sit with the air raid sirens which resulted in the sirens sounding like they were part of the score.
Can you discuss your approach to sound for the boat crossing to Ellis Island?
AN: Daniel had composed the boat arrival scene prior to the shoot and this cue was used for playback to the actors on set. This also meant nothing was usable from location and everything had to be built from scratch.
Steve [Single] went into great detail with the crowd/loop group. Creating the sound of the immigrants, he recorded actors in Polish, Hungarian, and Russian — any language that reflected the post-war diaspora.
Brady wanted to get a sense of all the elements: foley, crowd, music, and sound effects while battling it out against Erzsébet’s VO.
Brady and Mona’s script was quite descriptive in places in reference to sound and music. “CUE: The sonic boom of a ship’s hull impacting against the waves; each redundant crash gives way to a romantic orchestral swell… ”
So upon first reading the script you could really get a sense of what they wanted to hear and the claustrophobia upon meeting László in the bowels of the ship.
So upon first reading the script you could really get a sense of what they wanted to hear and the claustrophobia upon meeting László in the bowels of the ship. We went about creating these dull boomy wave crashes, which start in the interrogation scene prior with Zsófia, almost as if they are distant bombs from the war. I played around with the waves on the off beat of Daniel’s score as if they were part of the music. Then it was interesting to have them disappear into the beat and then unexpectedly reappear out of time with the music to add to the chaos when László is fighting his way through the crowds.
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Once we were in the final mix, Brady was keen to play around with hearing more elements from the boat in the interrogation scene prior. Metallic ship groans, the baby crying, and all this was really interesting as suddenly you weren’t sure if this scene was reality or László’s dream.
Having Daniel’s temp music early was instrumental in working out what sounds added to the chaos and which sounds were getting in the way. We deliberately went about having some of the ship groans be discordant and against the music to create a sense of tension and unease.
I loved the reverberant sound of the chairs in cousin Attila’s showroom, and the wonderful foley for the chair creaks and slides. It has this uncomfortable feel. Can you talk about your sound work here?
AN: Brady wanted to feel every movement and detail in this scene. I initially had covered the chairs with effects. Then, foley did a fantastic job taking this a step further and really adding to the awkwardness. Their footsteps in this scene are also excellent, hearing Attila’s wife echoing throughout the showroom really added a clinical feel to the scene.
Who did the foley on the film?
AN: We commissioned Cooper Sound in Australia for the foley. Cooper Sound consists of the father/son team of Steve Burgess and Dylan Burgess. Steve [Single] and I know them well so we were confident in receiving a very detailed and crafted foley track.
Steve Burgess at Cooper Sound
Dylan Burgess at Cooper Sound
By the time foley came on, Steve and I had done a thorough first pass of the film so we were able to provide them with work-in-progress sound effects and dialogue bounces. A 3 ½ hour film is a mammoth task for all departments so we needed to make sure everyone knew what the others were covering.
The foley team took great care in sourcing the right props, like getting the sound of the various papers for László’s drawings and even taking great care with making sure the heavy trench coats of the period sounded right.
And it paid off with Brady mentioning numerous times during the final mix that this was the best foley track he has ever had on one of his films.
Recording bulldozers for ‘The Brutalist’
Aside from loop group and foley, did you do any custom recordings for the film? If so, can you talk about what you recorded, what your recording setup was, and how you used it in the film?
AN: I was very keen to record some construction sounds for the film with it being so important in creating the sonic world of the Pennsylvania building site, much of which takes place beyond the frame.
I happened to be speaking to a friend of mine back in Australia (Frank Lipson) who is a fantastic sound recordist and a fellow sound designer. I was trying to arrange a record here in London when Frank mentioned a friend of his has a few bulldozers and may be able to help. We were lucky with the bulldozers currently being stationed at a remote quarry away from traffic noise and we were granted permission for the record.
Frank was instrumental in setting this up and did an amazing job with the recordings. I gave him a wish list of sounds I was after — various distant bulldozers maneuvering, revs, bucket dumps, etc. Seeing we were creating all of this for the sound of the construction offscreen, I was particularly interested in capturing the tracks of a bulldozer at a distance as these would play well echoing over the field of the Pennsylvania building site. The bulldozer tracks ended up sounding like a WW2 tank maneuvering around which was great in creating a subtle connection to WW2 and the construction site being a battlefield for László.
Setup-wise, both Frank and I were keen to make the most of this opportunity so we did a very thorough coverage. Frank used a Zoom F8n Pro recorder recording at 96K/32-bit with a RØDE NT-SF1 ambisonics mic, an AKG CK 80 shotgun mic, a Sanken CUX-100K Ultrasonic Mic for some of the revving so we could try pitching this right down. Frank also used a Holophone 5.1 mic going to another recorder — a Zoom F6 in 96K/32-bit mode. We also had 2 instamics mounted on the dozer for onboard perspectives if required which we didn’t need for the film but they sounded great and might come in handy one day. We also recorded some smaller tractors and smaller dozers for a bit of variation.
Here in London, we recorded building works of apartments going up in East London to capture the distant scaffolding sounds. There was a great natural slap off the surrounding buildings which I thought gave the recordings a nice sense of air and space. We also recorded various construction clangs and dumpster bangs which we pitched down for the coal shoveling location scene when Van Buren tracks down László to apologize earlier in the film.
In Pennsylvania, László is standing in a bread line. Can you talk about creating a sense of place here through sound, like the street ambience with voices in different languages, the church bells, etc.?
AN: Once again hats off to Steve’s great crowd work in this scene.
We wanted to create a sense of the surrounding grit of the city. I love the sound of a squealing train as it’s just such an unsettling sound so we used this over the camera tracking over the people standing in line. And of course, the ringing church bells promising sanctuary in the scene which doesn’t come.
What went into your sound work for the welding montage of László crafting this minimalist chair and chair/desk combo?
AN: There was some nice production sound of the sanding of the metal chair and the charcoal drawings which foley added to and really brought to life.
Brady had mentioned he wanted the welding to sound different so we had license to go a bit surreal. Seeing we had done a pass of the opening and the metal groans of the ship played well, I thought we could try continuing the theme of singing metal amongst the arcing sounds of the welding which then transformed into a squealing train pass at the end of the scene.
Can you talk about the sound of the Doylestown mansion? How did you want the audience to feel about this place, and how did you use sound to create that feeling?
AN: When they first drive onto the driveway of the Estate, it is haunting visually and Daniel’s score lets you know there is something not quite right about this place. Brady wanted the truck rattling over the wooden bridge to be prominent and we added eerie ravens which seemed to connect well to the mansion.
Daniel’s score lets you know there is something not quite right about this place.
Once inside, Brady had spoken about wanting to film more rooms of the mansion but seeing the shoot was so quick they were mainly limited to the library and dining rooms so he wanted to emphasize this was a large mansion through sound. We played with the entrance hall clock ticks always being in a larger space. For the dinner party scenes, Brady wanted to hear waiting staff constantly coming and going, adding a sense of scale beyond what we see.
Can you talk about your sound work for the library construction job, using rhythmic construction sounds like sawing and hammering?
AN: We were following Dávid Jancsó’s rhythmical picture edits. We wanted to convey the progression of time by punctuating each cut rather than having a constant throughout. There was something interesting in the percussive nature of the hammering and limiting it to short bursts — it made it more urgent.
The rhythmic sounds of construction are heard throughout the film. Can you talk about the evolution of these sounds – like, the library construction was smaller hand tools and that sound eventually grows into larger machine sounds as László’s career grows…
AN: The library construction being a smaller job focused more on singular sounds such as hand tools and not much overlap to feel like a smaller crew. Then as László’s career grew, we wanted to create the sense of a much larger building site so we introduced more machinery – bulldozers, tractors, and trucks. This is also where we used distant scaffolding being hammered together echoing across the site and deeper sounds like a pile driver to create a sense of it all happening on a larger scale.
What went into your sound work for the jazz band scene? After Gordon and László shoot heroine, the band melts into a dissonant, dark and atonal place. Was this all music, or was there sound design here too?
AN: The discordance and darkness are all organic in the playing of the Jazz musicians on set. Daniel was there on the day of the shoot and had mics on each player so Steve had some separation when it came to the mix.
Sound effects-wise, I played around with laughs and cheers and processed these with The Cargo Cult’s Slapper to create some strange and murky delays which just float under the music as if we are hearing them from László’s intoxicated POV. I used the same effect later in the film when Van Buren is searching for László in the cave mines and we hear strange laughter from the distant party.
László is invited to a Christmas dinner party at Harrison Van Buren’s house. After dinner in the study, what went into your sound design here? (I hear dissonant clock ticks, jewelry tinkling, glasses clinking, playing cards tap, lighter flick, money hitting the table… all resonant and echoey and it feels disconcerting. It’s not a happy feeling, it’s almost surreal.)
AN: This was a scene editor Dávid Jancsó sent to us fairly early on. He was playing around with the slow-motion cutaways during Van Buren’s monologue and he wanted to see what sound could bring to them.
I then tried to focus on heightening singular sounds floating in reverb; the tinkling of a woman adjusting her necklace, champagne glass clinks, the Van Buren clock ticking away
There was something interesting with these images of high society playing in slow motion; they were so hypnotic. We played around with glassy tones and a suspended clock chime which created this floating atmosphere. I then tried to focus on heightening singular sounds floating in reverb; the tinkling of a woman adjusting her necklace, champagne glass clinks, the Van Buren clock ticking away which then turns into a woman’s footsteps walking past when we cut back in real time. It ended up emphasizing that even though these people were in the same room as László, they were worlds apart.
What’s up with the old-timey Pennsylvania promos/archival promos? Was that something you had to create, or was that something the director provided?
AN: It was a bit of both. The archival footage had the VO and at times its own musical flourishes. We added subtle mono sound effects to the archive images such as period cars which would then transition us back into real time with László riding the bus.
With the building archival before the intermission, we covered everything in sound effects once again all mono and filtered to add subtle texture to the archival world and to help convey building had commenced.
PART 2
There’s a great scene when László meets the other architect Jim Simpson, and they’re walking through the construction site and it’s raining. Can you talk about your approach to sound here?
AN: Brady wanted a sense of a storm having just passed yet you can still feel it brewing in the air with the tarps flapping around, watery drips, and a muddy worksite. The scene starts with the end of a roll of thunder which turns into a distant bulldozer. Foley did a great job with the muddy footsteps and wet umbrellas. Brady was very keen to have Jim Simpson almost slip over in the mud when he went for László. Once again, credit to a great job from foley here.
I found using the Ambisonics recording of the bulldozer driving around worked well for a sense of space with it coming and going.
This scene is a good example of not seeing the construction but hearing the world of this massive build continue offscreen. This is where a lot of the bulldozer and scaffolding recordings we did for the film came into play. I found using the Ambisonics recording of the bulldozer driving around worked well for a sense of space with it coming and going. We were able to play the bulldozer as if it was off over the hill with being able to change the axis of the Ambisonics recordings after the fact and with some extra help from The Cargo Cult’s Slapper (such a great plugin).
I liked the idea of the construction site being László’s battleground and this scene seemed like the perfect opportunity. It’s subtle but hearing the bulldozer tracks echoing over the site is an echo back to the tracks of a military tank in WW2 roaming around.
I still liked the idea of short percussive hammering and scaffolding sounds and tried to use these to add tension.
The other construction sounds were the distant scaffolding and construction clangs we captured at a building site in London. These recordings had a great slap to them which seemed to sit well in the Pennsylvania valley. I still liked the idea of short percussive hammering and scaffolding sounds and tried to use these to add tension. We complemented these recordings with a great Scaffolding library from Hiss And A Roar.
Steve brought the workers to life with callouts echoing across the site when they ascend up top.
László, his wife, and his niece go to the Jewish temple for worship. Sounds of construction mix with the Jewish sermon and that leads into the railroad sounds. Again, it sounds dissonant and atonal, giving you a feeling of unease. Can you talk about your sound design for this sequence?
AN: It’s such a great sequence and between the sermon and Daniel’s score, it was already so powerful.
With the train, we had to set up the weight of this concrete which caused the train to derail. We started with creaks and strains from the crane as it loads the concrete and the train carriage shunts beneath its weight.
I have a great recording of wind howling through a clothesline which sounded like a discordant part of the train and added to the feeling of unease.
For the journey, it was about trying to convey speed without stepping on the score so I tried to lean on the steam chuffs more than the track sounds. I have a great recording of wind howling through a clothesline which sounded like a discordant part of the train and added to the feeling of unease. I floated this in reverb and liked how it linked sonically to the cave winds later in the film in Italy.
The train accident we witness from a bird’s eye view so it was about trying to make it loud and powerful from a distance. I used train shunting recordings and also added some of the metal groans from the opening ship sequence linking back to the beginning of the film. This lingers into the next scene for a moment as László wakes up to Erzsébet screaming in pain. We wanted the train sequence to feel surreal and almost like a dream so you weren’t sure it was real until it’s revealed in the following scene when Van Buren shuts down the construction site.
Please talk about your approach to sound in Italy and the marble quarry. This was such a cool location for sound! There is this sound inside the marble cave/tunnels – like a pinging sound that reminds me of recordings captured under ice. What was this sound? It was awesome!
AN: This is such an incredible location. We had heard so much construction back at the building site in Pennsylvania so we wanted the marble mines to feel very different.
In the picture edit, Dávid Jancsó initially set up this sense of otherworldliness with jumps in time with how he played Orazio’s (The Italian marble mason) dialogue, as if words and thoughts were happening at the same time. Steve worked his magic with delays and had it floating throughout the quarry.
There is whistling wind to give us a sense of height and then we hear moaning ghostly winds as if they are from the surrounding caves.
So it just didn’t sit right playing this scene as reality. There is whistling wind to give us a sense of height and then we hear moaning ghostly winds as if they are from the surrounding caves. The pinging sound is actually ice displacement/ice cracks to try and give a voice to the marble itself, as if it was being seen for the first time. It was like giving the marble its own heartbeat.
As Van Buren steps towards the piece of marble, we reintroduce the floaty glassy/suspended chime tone from the slow-motion cutaways during the sofa monologue which I thought was a nice link back to Van Buren’s world.
What was your approach to sound for the corridor outside the party in the marble cave/tunnel?
AN: It felt like we had a bit of license to play this scene as surreal with Van Buren drunk calling out to László and ultimately finding him in a drugged state.
I started with a preset in Slapper fittingly called ‘Murky Headspace’ and played with the delays from there.
We hear foreboding wind moans and echoey laughs from the party — we used the same effect for the laughs from the jazz club. For these, I started with a preset in Slapper fittingly called ‘Murky Headspace’ and played with the delays from there.
As he finds László, we shift to building tension by continuing the murky party laughs and cave rumbles. There is also the sound of water running through the pipe on the wall. Here, we wanted it to sound gritty and dirty; foley did a great job with all the feet scruffing across the earth. The sound of Van Buren undoing his belt is one of the most disturbing sounds in the whole scene.
What went into the sound of the scene when Harry searches for his father after Erzsébet tells everyone about László’s rape?
AN: We had previously established the sound of clocks in the Van Buren house in both the entrance hall and the dining room. The clocks play a big part in the emptiness of the house, especially when Harry is searching for his father, the ticking becomes overwhelming adding to his desperate search.
The clocks play a big part in the emptiness of the house […]the ticking becomes overwhelming adding to his desperate search.
Before this, Brady had the idea in the final mix to add a fireplace in the dining room so initially it’s a warm and inviting dinner party. As the scene unfolds with Erzsébet confronting Van Buren, a rumble grows out of the fireplace as she is dragged out across the floor. The foley sounds of Harry slamming the table and Erzsébet being dragged across the floor are very effective. The entrance hall clock grows as Harry climbs the stairs and we are just left with the rumble from the fireplace and a very loud clock.
The sound of the staircase was wonderful! Was that the real staircase sound?
AN: Yes! Thankfully the production sound mixer Szabolcs Gáspár had recorded some wild tracks on location. The real staircase was a great sound with all its creaks and added a sense of awkwardness and desperation as Harry searches for his father. The foley team covered it as well but mainly to provide us with a more definitive footstep. So it was a combination of the two in the end.
What was the most challenging aspect of the sound design? Or what was the most challenging scene for sound design?
AN: Initially, I thought it was going to be creating this world of construction offscreen and getting the sense of scale and perspective. But in the end, I would say it was the opening boat arrival scene, more from the sense of getting everything across in the mix Brady wanted and retaining the audience’s focus on Erzsébet’s VO.
A big thanks to Andy Neil for giving us a behind-the-scenes look at the sound of The Brutalist and to Jennifer Walden for the interview!
