Interview by Jennifer Walden, photos courtesy of Warner Bros. Pictures
Barbie | Main Trailer
Director Greta Gerwig’s latest film Barbie – in theaters now – delivers both humor and heart in a way that embraces the fantastic and plastic world of Barbie and the complex, messy world of reality.
4x-Oscar-nominated and CAS Award-winning re-recording mixer/sound designer/supervising sound editor Ai-Ling Lee and Emmy-winning sound designer/supervising sound editor Dan Kenyon were tasked with designing a fun and fake-sounding world for Barbieland/Kendom, using sounds that aren’t ‘real’ but rather imitated reality using vocal sounds, toys, and musical instruments.
Barbie features several original music tracks that make the film feel like a musical at times, which isn’t new ground for Lee, who earned a CAS Award and two Oscar noms for her sound work on Damien Chazelle’s La La Land in 2017. As the Barbie music tracks came in late in the post-sound process, Lee and Kenyon reworked their effects, choosing sounds that complemented and punctuated the music tracks.
Here, they talk about recording sounds for Barbieland/Kendom, designing sounds against the music, creating a whimsical beach battle for the Kens, cutting dialogue for Gloria’s meaningful monologue, and so much more!
On the dub stage with the sound team, music editors, producer, Greta Gerwig, Noah Baumbach, and picture editor Nick Houy
What went into the sounds of Barbieland when the Barbies are in charge?
Ai-Ling Lee (AL): In my early conversations with Greta [Gerwig], we were exploring what we might hear in Barbieland because the Barbie universe is completely an interior world — the houses have no walls, nothing is alive, not even birds. But everything needs to feel pleasant and inviting.
Greta also wanted the movie to feel like a 1950s musical. Everything needed to sound authentically artificial. And we imagined it as though the background atmos are being piped in through speakers.
The sounds in Barbieland are perfect and controlled. It can be cheesy and tacky, but overall it needs to be delightful and otherworldly — we want people to love it. Some of the sound inspirations came from old Disney animations, like the bluebird calls from Snow White, or magic wand sounds that are warm and friendly. There are a lot of bells, chimes, and harps.
Sound supervisor/re-recording mixer Ai-Ling Lee recording bird whistle sounds
Nothing is real; even the bird calls in Barbieland aren’t real. They were recorded from those bird-shaped water whistles. To imitate the bluebird calls from Snow White, I recorded my husband whistling and we edited and pitched them.
Since everything is plastic and pleasant in Barbieland, we had to use alternate sounds for things like the jackhammer at the Barbie construction site, a fun, plastic cartoon car crash without metal or glass, an ambulance transforming on the beach that sounds like a human-sized plastic wind up toy with beds unfolding that sounds like a musical box, etc.
Overall for the objects that the Barbies use, Greta wanted it to feel like sounds in a commercial, something the audience would want to have it. For instance, when Barbie opens the fridge, to make it seem refreshing, we added a female exhale, like “ahh.” A sound you’d make after drinking a refreshing cola.
The movie’s tone allowed us to add some campy sounds (classic, stereotypical sounds that we’d normally try to stay away from). For instance, we used the stereotypical dolphin chatter sound effect during the World Travel sequence, the classic red tail hawk call in the desert, and, of course, the Monty Python homage of coconut shell horse gallops when the Kens returns to Barbieland after the beach fight.
As for Tanner the dog, we tried a futzed recording of a girl play-barking, as though she’s playing with the toy. In the end, we decided to go with a deadpan man saying “bark, woof” because that was funnier. That turned out to be our 1st picture assistant, Nick Ramirez.
Supervising Sound Editor: Dan Kenyon
Vocal-performed sounds were used throughout Barbieland as we wanted to give it a playfulness like a human playing with Barbie dolls and making those sounds. For example, some of the fight sounds for “Allan versus the construction worker Kens” were layered with beatbox vocal sounds. And there were vocal sounds imitating airy swishes for when Ken was flying through the air (after he runs into the wave), and a vocal imitating plane fly-bys.
Dan Kenyon (DK): The vocal sounds were in the boat engine during the World Travel montage too; it’s made with cartoon-like vocals – like bubbly lip flap sounds. We’d sprinkle vocal sounds in wherever we could.
AL: Another thing Greta and I talked about was since there’s no water in Barbieland, would we even hear water? We tried adding water sounds but it just didn’t work. It felt weird. So, when the Barbies drink or spit, or when Ken crashes into a Malibu Beach surf, there are no sounds of water. When Margot takes a shower and goes down the pool slide, we used rainsticks to mimic artificial pleasant water sounds.
Sound Designer: Tobias Poppe
DK: We tried to stay away from literal sounds – like big, heavy jet engines – because everything is light and happy in Barbieland. For the plane, for instance, we used layers of wind and vocals and a little bit of harmonica and chimes as sweeteners. We actually got specific direction not to use any real plane sounds, so the challenge was to find elements that were fun and playful and Barbie-esque but still sounded like a plane.
For the cars in Barbieland, because they don’t have gas engines, sound designer Tobias Poppe recorded an RC car and we played with the pitch of that. The foley team at One Step Up recorded some great tire sounds for us. The cars in the film are essentially toys, but they are also life-size so they needed to sound that way.
AL: When the Barbie car starts, we layered in the sound of a disk sander (a mechanical tool), which has an electric wind-up sound when it starts up. That would then tie in with the RC car.
DK: Another important element for the sound of Barbieland was the loop group and background walla. It was mostly (if not 100%) women, laughing and talking. It had a cheerful and playful vibe.
We also sifted through 200 different ‘Hi Barbie!’ takes from loop group to use in the movie.
We had three days of group with 40 actors, so we were able to have a different cast for Mattel/real world versus Barbieland versus Kendom. Group-wise, each of those sounded unique.
We had collaborations between loop group and effects walla, and did a combination of group and effects for the Barbieland “dance cheers,” “fight reactions” for Allan’s fight, and the Kens beach fight.
We also sifted through 200 different “Hi Barbie!” takes from loop group to use in the movie.
AL: Brian Bowles, our dialogue/ADR supervisor, tackled the group part of it. And we did the effects background walla part of it.
How does that compare to the sound of Kendom?
DK: One difference was that, when the Kens take over, the walla has a “frat party” kind of vibe. There’s cheering and yelling and more obnoxious laughter than when the Barbies are in charge. In Kendom, the walla becomes a lot more masculine and a little bit messier.
AL: For example, the Kens’ plane has a more fighter jet type of sound. For that, we processed spinner firework sounds and pitched those down.
We also snuck in horse neighs coming out of TV sets and some off-screen sheep sounds. Those showed up during the Kens beach fight, too.
As a call back to Sylvester Stallone’s Rocky, a boxing bell was added when Gosling throws the mink to Kingsley Ben-Adir.
The goat/sheep sounds happened by coincidence. During one of our review sessions, one of the effects walla sounded like a goat when playing in the mix. Greta heard it and asked, “Wait, is that a goat in the scene?” It made her smile, so we added more goat/sheep sounds.
For Kendom, basically anything macho was game. As a call back to Sylvester Stallone’s Rocky, a boxing bell was added when Gosling throws the mink to Kingsley Ben-Adir. We added fighter jet sounds for the slo-mo Kens playing beach volleyball ala Top Gun.
DK: When the Kens take over, they have all these fun games like ping pong, foosball, and pool – all these “dude” activities. There’s a part where Ken (Ryan Gosling) takes a beer out of the mini fridge and pops the bottle open, and we repurposed some of these sounds offscreen in other areas to give the impression that the Ken’s are always partying and having a good time.
AL: In Barbieland/Kendom, everything is plastic and so those bottle opens are plasticy. When Ken opens the door to his Humvee, we added a plastic crank stutter sound to make it sound like a plastic human-sized toy.
DK: And he has that fun, super long plastic squeak when he slides down the Humvee.
AL: That always gets a laugh.
What went into the sound of The Kens beach fight? How were you able to have fun with sound for that scene?
AL: In the script, Greta and Noah Baumbach (co-writer) described that fight as Saving Private Ryan but with toys. They use frisbees, toy arrows, tennis rackets, and inflatables instead of real weapons.
So I guess the objective was if we just play the track without music, it would be like the Saving Private Ryan Omaha Beach Landing scene but filled with silly sounds and wimpy male fight walla, like high-pitched screaming and whining – whatever helped to amp up the humor and ridiculousness that we are seeing.
it would be like the Saving Private Ryan Omaha Beach Landing scene but filled with silly sounds and wimpy male fight walla, like high-pitched screaming and whining
For the arrows, we blew into a PVC pipe which created plastic tonal whoosh sounds. We used a lot of plungers, huge plastic bin drops for the big plastic “boing” sounds, squeaky dog toys, and of course, horses and sheep.
One of the fun parts was when Ken (Ryan Gosling) and Ken (Simu Liu) started using superpowers. For those, sound designer Nia Hansen did some passes. Up to that point, everything in Barbieland is artificial but mostly not synthy-designy. So for this moment, it was fun to go with a little more super-hero vibe. And then to give it that Barbie touch, we added some magical wand glisses on top of it.
This beach fight had so many planes of action going on. We started by covering almost everything on-screen but Kevin O’Connell (dialogue/music re-recording mixer) and I realized that by doing so, you can’t follow the action anymore. Also, the main driver of the scene is the awesome music. We started to pare it down and just focus on the principal characters’ actions, plus the occasional close-up objects that fly by.
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There was a trip from Barbieland to the real world – the World Travel montage. Can you talk about that journey sound-wise?
AL: The World Travel montage happens numerous times in the film, and each time it’s a bit different depending on the amount of dialog and music. The first time they travel, the main part of the joke is the song from Tame Impala called “Journey To The Real World” which is commenting on what they’re doing. So we had to be very specific with the sound effects, having short distinct sounds for each vehicle at the start of each transition point, such as a double car revving “vroom vroom” sound, classic dolphin clicks for the boat section, a VW bus honk for the camper van, classic sonar beeps for the rocket ship, and sleigh bells for the snowmobile.
One of the challenges for the sound design in Barbie was working around the clever and funny dialog and music while embellishing and giving sonic character to the different worlds.
The World Travel montage happens numerous times in the film, and each time it’s a bit different depending on the amount of dialog and music.
DK: That was an overall challenge for the movie. We and our effects editors created different versions and elements for the World Travel montages, and for other scenes as well, like when the ambulance opens up on the beach in the first part of the film. That was fun. We got to explore a lot and use different combinations of people’s work to see what worked best. We really had to find the right sounds that worked with music. It was tough but I think we ended up with a really great result.
AL: In terms of music, there were a lot of explorations and changes on that until about a month or so before the start of pre-dubs. The film ended up very much like a musical with all the songs that are unique to each scene. Depending on the new music or songs, we had to quickly think off the cuff and figure out how our sounds would play against the new tempo and key. We had to be very specific with our sound effects choices and background choices so that we didn’t start muddying things up.
Gloria (played by America Ferrera) gives this amazing speech about how difficult it is to be a woman. Can you talk about what went into that monologue?
AL: Glad you like it! It’s such a powerful performance and emotionally written. It took intricate dialogue editing from Brian Bowles and dialogue mixing from Kevin O’Connell. It was built with six takes from three mic setups. Brian mentioned that the night before filming, America had some thoughts about the monologue and made some tweaks together with Greta.
DK: Greta and the picture editor Nick Houy were very protective with Gloria’s speech, so even in the first temp we added in a bit more foley than we normally would, to fill it out and keep the scene going and not take the audience out of the moment. We needed to make it feel pristine and focused on the dialogue but not unnaturally quiet. They were really careful about that whole sequence.
There’s a scene where Barbie and Ruth are talking together in this ethereal realm, and Barbie is learning what it’s like to be human and feel real emotions. What went into the sound of that scene?
AL: That scene feels a bit like heaven. For the atmos, to give it a subtle hint of re-birth like a baby in a mother’s womb, we processed various water and wave sounds. It was a stretch, so we hoped it worked.
The scene goes into Barbie experiencing what being human is, and the Billie Eilish song “What Was I Made For?” comes in. We recorded closeup breathing from Margot Robbie (as Barbie) just so we can focus more on her – her breathing and subtle heartbeats.
Greta wanted Barbieland to be this artificial and perfect world…and the real world to be gritty and messy yet it’s still good and beautiful.
One of the early conversations with Greta is that she wanted Barbieland to be this artificial and perfect world where everything is pleasant and the real world to be gritty and messy yet it’s still good and beautiful. The real world would have more layers of happiness and sadness but it needed to feel like a place that you also want to be. We tried to take a bit of that idea in this montage sequence, adding in real-world sounds. The flashback-like video clips in this montage are from crew members, so we used some of the audio from those videos besides augmenting it with other happy/sad life sounds.
DK: There were a lot of versions of that and it was cool to see it evolve. At first, it was a sound effects-heavy sequence, but as the picture edits kept evolving, the Billie Eilish song came in and that changed everything. It’s such a great song and it made the whole sequence way more emotional. It came out so well. I think that’s one of my favorite songs in the movie.
AL: The song turned out to be very effective, and they used variations of it for all the other “shining” moments in the movie.
DK: It was an amazing choice.
What has been unique about your experience of working on the Barbie movie? Or, what do you hope that the audience takes away from this film in terms of sound?
DK: I hope that we have contributed some fun, interesting textures that support the story and the different environments that we see. There are things in Barbieland that we’ve seen in real life – like the Barbie car and the Dream House – but we got to create this overall vibe for Barbieland and then subtly change it from Barbieland into Kendom when the Kens takeover. I think those subtle details go a long way in setting the tone when the Barbies or Kens are in charge. I hope that people enjoy experiencing Barbieland and Kendom.
AL: This was a unique experience. Throughout the post-sound process, I never got tired of the humor and humanness of the story, laughing and quoting lines from the film. All the music tracks are such earworms but in a good way; it makes me happy. With each viewing, I saw something new. I hope the audience feels that way about the Barbie film, and that the sound subconsciously helps take them on that journey.
A big thanks to Ai-Ling Lee and Dan Kenyon for giving us a behind-the-scenes look at the sound of Barbie and to Jennifer Walden for the interview!
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