Interview by Jennifer Walden, photos courtesy of Walt Disney Studios
If you missed Marvel’s Thunderbolts* in theaters, you can now stream it on Disney+. The story follows a team of antiheroes who come together to thwart a new evil, forcing them to confront their darkest memories.
Here, supervising sound editor/sound designer Samson Neslund and 5x-Emmy-winning re-recording mixer Onnalee Blank at Skywalker Sound talk about taking a realistic approach to sound to support the story of these underrated superheroes who have fallen from societal grace, like making a “dime store” version of Capt. America’s shield for John Walker. They also talk about designing the sound of the Void — the dark realm that exists inside Sentry’s fractured mind — using abstract textures and dissonant drones. Plus, they discuss their approach to crafting chaotic scenes, like the buildings collapsing in New York City, and the smoke bomb fight between the Thunderbolts and Val’s paramilitary forces, how they designed the sound of the sonic barrier inside Val’s desert vault, what went into fun fight scenes (like Bucky being beaten with his own arm), how they created that ridiculously long limo horn honk, and much more!
Marvel Studios’ Thunderbolts* | Final Trailer
What were director Jake Schreier’s ideas for sound on Thunderbolts*? What aesthetic did he have for sound?
Samson Neslund (SN): Jake’s sonic aesthetic in Thunderbolts* seemed to blend two approaches: a more realistic, indie style, and a hyper-realistic, cinematic style that Marvel films typically have. He often shifted between these two styles, even within a single scene, based on what he felt the story required.
we frequently dialed back overly heightened elements in favor of more naturalistic sounds
Thunderbolts* features a large number of practical effects, and Jake aimed to honor the fact that scenes were shot in real locations with real props. As a result, we frequently dialed back overly heightened elements in favor of more naturalistic sounds, helping the audience feel the authenticity and connect with the characters. Jake was incredibly precise about sound, and we spent a great deal of time with him on the stage, fine-tuning each moment to achieve what he envisioned.
The opening of the film sets up the audience’s expectations for sound on Thunderbolts* — how the body hits will sound, what the weapons will sound like, what the score will sound like, etc. You really get a taste for it in the hallway fight, with the overhead POV shot of Yelena taking on the security guards. Can you talk about your sound work for the opening and what you wanted to establish sound-wise?
SN: The opening scene is a clear example of where we favored a naturalistic approach to sound. The film begins with the sound of wind: simple, empty, and unembellished. Jake wanted the audience to genuinely feel as though they were on that skyscraper with Yelena.
the sounds of fighting and gunfire are treated more naturally and primarily serve as underscore
He aimed for her movements to sound like production audio, grounding the moment in realism. Similarly, in the hallway sequence, the sounds of fighting and gunfire are treated more naturally and primarily serve as underscore, allowing the voiceover and music to take the lead.
Yelena is sent to Valentina’s vault in the desert, and there she finds three other assassins and Bob. What went into the sounds for Taskmaster (Antonia), John Walker as Capt. America, and Ghost (Ava)? (Since these characters have appeared in other Marvel films, there are established sounds. Did you use those as reference?)
characters evolve over the course of the films, so it’s equally important for their sound to evolve with them
SN: In these films, you’re always building on what was done before, and it’s important to stay true to established sounds in the Marvel universe. At the same time, characters evolve over the course of the films, so it’s equally important for their sound to evolve with them. A good example of this is Ghost’s voice. In Ant-Man and the Wasp, she was in an uneasy state, struggling to control her abilities, and her voice reflected that with heavy processing. In Thunderbolts*, Ghost is in control of her powers, so we made the processing on her voice much more natural to reflect that growth.
Walker presented an interesting case. His shield is a less special version of Captain America’s — the “dime store” version. To reflect that, we pulled back on the more stylized vibranium resonance in favor of a more ordinary metallic sound. We didn’t want to make Walker’s shield feel flimsy or cheap, but also didn’t want to emphasize the more stylized version of Cap’s shield we are familiar with.
Ava tries to leave the vault facility, and there is a terrible noise (glitchy and whompy). What went into creating this ‘sound barrier’?
SN: The sound barrier that blocks Ghost from phasing was a collaboration between our sound designer, Dave Farmer, and one of our sound effects editors, Adam Kopald.
It’s made up of several elements, including a powerful synth horn-like sound that, to me, evokes a military-grade weapon, and a high-pitched frequency that helps give the impression the character’s ears are being pierced. The pitches rise as the sound progresses, increasing the intensity.
It’s made up of several elements, including a powerful synth horn-like sound that, to me, evokes a military-grade weapon
Re-recording mixer Michael Semanick did a lot of detailed work in the mix to bring out that high frequency just enough for the audience to feel the character’s pain without it being physically uncomfortable. He also moved the sound around the room in a way that helped fill the space and make it feel like the sound was penetrating everything — nothing could escape it. It’s my favorite “terrible noise” in the film.
Yelena gets knocked out by a blast in the vault. While she’s unconscious, she relives a terrible memory (which Bob enters). What went into the sound of the memories that Bob experiences with others? (Yelena, Walker, and Val?)
SN: The Void spaces presented a unique sound design challenge in this film. The Thunderbolts experience traumatic memories from their past after making physical contact with Bob. It was important to Jake that the Void felt like a metaphysical space — dark, internal reflections of each character’s history.
Environmentally, we avoided natural sounds and instead leaned into abstract textures that evoked the space without grounding it in physical reality
Environmentally, we avoided natural sounds and instead leaned into abstract textures that evoked the space without grounding it in physical reality. Dissonant drones, guttural creature-like elements, and dark, stylized versions of real-world sounds helped create the unsettling atmosphere.
Another important sonic element was a long dialogue reverb that gradually descends in pitch, designed by sound designer Paul Hsu. It created a dissonant, falling sensation. It’s not overtly noticeable, but it lingers just enough to make you feel that something is off. We also developed a low, pulsing tone to represent the Void itself. It gradually built in intensity until it peaked when the Thunderbolts confronted Dark Bob in the lab. Much of the Void’s sound design plays discretely. Jake wanted the space to feel empty and unnerving rather than overtly dramatic.
What went into the sound of the smoke bomb fight scene between Yelena and Bob against Val’s forces?
SN: This scene is a great example of Jake’s preference for a more naturalistic approach to sound. We spent a lot of time adding layers of extra “mess”— gear movement, off-screen soldier footsteps, vocal efforts, and other subtle details that we might typically clean up for clarity. The goal was to create a sense of chaos, disorientation, and realism.
I love the super-long horn honking as Alexei drives to the vault to save Yelena! Hilarious! Anything to talk about here?
SN: I love it, too! The offscreen sound that gets Yelena’s attention is almost imperceptible at first, and it’s played abstractly to avoid giving away the limousine before it becomes visually clear.
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We filtered a distant thunder rumble and a jet, then blended those elements with a vehicle
We filtered a distant thunder rumble and a jet, then blended those elements with a vehicle. As the limo gradually comes into focus, the thunder and jet sounds fade back, allowing the vehicle to emerge more distinctly. The limo horn was the actual production recording of it honking as it approached. The performance, the natural slap, and the subtle Doppler effect on the horn were simply too good not to use.
What went into the sound of the car chase scene with the limo and Humvees?
SN: This was a really enjoyable scene to work on. We were sent a cut early in the process to get a head start on shaping it. Editorially, a lot of effort went into differentiating the vehicles to keep the sequence dynamic. We gave each vehicle a distinct sonic identity: the Hummers sounded low and beefy, the limo felt worn and rickety, and the motorcycle was aggressive and exhilarating.
the Hummers sounded low and beefy, the limo felt worn and rickety, and the motorcycle was aggressive and exhilarating
We also wanted to maintain a constant threat from the Hummers throughout, since the Thunderbolts spend a good amount of time arguing amongst themselves during the attack, so we added a lot of offscreen gunfire, bullet whiz-bys, and ricochets to heighten the danger. Bucky’s arrival is also the first big hero moment in the film, and the music played an essential role in delivering that.
Bob makes his big entrance as the Sentry, and his power creates an invisible shield around Val. He then fights the Thunderbolts and beats Bucky with his own arm. What went into the sound and mix for this scene?
SN: Jake wanted the Penthouse Fight to feel big, hyper-realistic, and cinematic. For this sequence, we intentionally stepped away from the indie, production-style aesthetic. The focus was on clarity and impact.
Since this scene essentially introduces Sentry’s abilities, we needed to sell the absurd scale of his powers
Jake’s vision was for Sentry to feel unstoppable and overwhelmingly powerful. Since this scene essentially introduces Sentry’s abilities, we needed to sell the absurd scale of his powers. A key element of his design is a low-end, stuttering sound. Low frequencies do a great job of conveying power. We layered in tonal stingers and aggressive, whooshing sounds to emphasize his movements. When Bucky stands to face Sentry, heroic music plays to build hope and make the audience believe he might stand a chance. The punchline, of course, is that Sentry effortlessly knocks him out with his own arm.
Sentry (Dark Bob) hovers above the street; he holds up his hand and makes people disappear. What went into these sounds for Sentry?
SN: One of the first design tasks we had was developing a sound for Dark Bob “Voiding” people in New York City, where he raises his hand and his victim becomes a shadow instantaneously.
The final result was a deep, aggressive impact that had a distinct hollowness to it
We went back and forth with Jake with different iterations of the sound. Something I really appreciated working with Jake is that he always had a clear vision of what he wanted. With each iteration, we got a little closer to what he was after. A key challenge was striking the right balance in the percussive quality of the Voiding sound. If it was too percussive, it didn’t feel right, and if there was too little punctuation, it lost definition. The final result was a deep, aggressive impact that had a distinct hollowness to it, which I think helped sell the idea that people had vanished into the Void.
Can you talk about your mix for the scene in which the Thunderbolts work together to save the citizens from the falling debris?
SN: This was one of the most “Marvel” sequences in the film in terms of scale, with citywide destruction, helicopters, explosions, and our heroes teaming up to save the day. One of our sound effects editors, Jake Riehle, did a phenomenal job of shaping the sequence, capturing a sense of mayhem and spectacle while still clearly highlighting the key story beats.
Jake Riehle did a phenomenal job of shaping the sequence, capturing a sense of mayhem and spectacle
In the mix, Michael Semanick brought incredible depth to the scene. He made full use of Atmos, often panning building debris from overhead to create an immersive experience. Despite the chaotic nature of the scene, the mix maintained a clear narrative thread, allowing the audience to stay grounded in the story.
Similar to mixing the effects, taking some of the music stems off of the screen helps to create depth, too
Onnalee Blank (OB): This scene was tricky since the music had tons of high frequency with tons of horns and strings. Then you combine that with all the smashing of glass and debris, and it makes it a dance so that it doesn’t hurt your ears but still can be impactful. Making sure the multiband compressor is activated in the high-frequency range was key for the music and for all the screaming of the group as well. Similar to mixing the effects, taking some of the music stems off of the screen helps to create depth, too.
Yelena chooses to enter the darkness that Sentry casts (i.e., the Void), and she finds herself inside her memory of being young and getting Anya killed, again. This memory sounds different. There’s a cool mix with voices and panning. Can you talk about your sound work here?
OB: The Void was the major topic that we discussed and worked on throughout our mix. We wanted it to be different but not overly “weird.” Jake had a vision that he wanted to establish and grow as the film grew. Using non-typical delays or reverbs was something Jake wanted in the film.
Yelena and (nice) Bob are together inside Sentry’s mind. The other Thunderbolts show up to save them. The ‘team’ goes through different memories with Bob and ends up in Val’s lab in Malaysia. Can you talk about your sound and mix for this sequence?
Despite the objects swirling around and relentlessly crashing into them, you can clearly hear the dialogue, music, and follow the story, without compromising any of the sound effects
SN: The Void sequences were incredibly rewarding to work on, both in terms of design and mix. Each section involved an extensive amount of work. My favorite sounding section is when the attic attacks Bob and Yelena.
Despite the objects swirling around and relentlessly crashing into them, you can clearly hear the dialogue, music, and follow the story, without compromising any of the sound effects. Everything fit together so seamlessly. I think a big part of its effectiveness is also due to the precise picture editing, and extensive use of practical effects. The physical elements added a natural rhythm and movement that made everything feel cohesive and believable.
What was the most challenging scene for sound design? What went into it?
SN: The most challenging scene was almost certainly when Bob and the Thunderbolts confront Dark Bob (The Void) in the lab. There was an overwhelming amount of things happening — the building destruction, combat, and emotional character beats all layered together.
There were so many layers that maintaining clarity without the scene turning into mush was a struggle
On top of that, the music often played delicately, even though we needed to convey the feeling that the Void world was tearing apart. Balancing those contrasting tones was a real challenge. We spent a lot of time figuring out which elements to feature at any given moment. There were so many layers that maintaining clarity without the scene turning into mush was a struggle. We worked extensively with Jake in the mix, spending days essentially on a two-minute section.
The common thread through the scene is Bob pummeling himself, punctuated by deep, boomy fist hits. That became our sonic anchor, and the rest of the building destruction, action, and emotional beats revolved around that. One of our sound effects editors, Cameron Barker, did some outstanding work laying the foundation and adding detail to the scene, and Michael and Onnalee did an incredible job of shaping the track in the mix.
Did you do any field recording/custom recording for this film? If so, what did you record, what was your setup, and how did it fit into the sound design for the film?
SN: We captured some great field recordings that were used throughout the film. One standout to me was a howling sound from an air conditioner recorded in a building on the Disney Lot. We ended up using it as an element of the elevator shaft’s environment in the scene where the Thunderbolts are escaping the Vault. It added a convincing hollow and slightly eerie resonance to that space.
What makes production audio so effective is that it’s imperfect: it includes accidental noises, irregularities, and background sounds that all contribute to an authentic feel
Recording great production sound on set is essential. It provides a sense of realism that’s nearly impossible to replicate in post. I also recommend recording in real environments and under natural conditions whenever possible. What makes production audio so effective is that it’s imperfect: it includes accidental noises, irregularities, and background sounds that all contribute to an authentic feel. It also captures the true acoustic space and how the sounds interact with the environment. It’s easy to become overly clinical when recording in controlled settings, but stepping away from that precision can be key to creating something that feels alive and grounded.
What will you carry with you from your experience on Thunderbolts*?
SN: This was an incredibly rewarding project, and I’m grateful to have been a part of it. I’m especially thankful for the opportunity to work with director Jake Schreier, as well as the editors, Harry Yoon, Angela Catanzaro, and their entire team. Their passion for sound and its role in storytelling made collaborating with them an absolute pleasure.
Having a great team makes all the difference to me, and it was a joy to work with each of them
I am also thankful for my team: Dan Laurie, Michael Semanick, Onnalee Blank, Steve Schatz, Jake Riehle, Cameron Barker, Adam Kopald, Dave Farmer, David Hughes, Chris Manning, Alyssa Nevarez, Chris Kahwaty, Kim Foscato, Ronni Brown, Jana Vance, Richard Duarte, Doug Parker, Dorothy Hyunjung Lee, and Liz Marston. Having a great team makes all the difference to me, and it was a joy to work with each of them! Everyone brought their own unique skills and ideas, and the final track became something far beyond what I could have accomplished alone.
A big thanks to Samson Neslund and Onnalee Blank for giving us a behind-the-scenes look at the sound of Thunderbolts* and to Jennifer Walden for the interview!
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