Using Sound to Bridge Animation and Archive Footage in ‘Flee’

Director Jonas Poher Rasmussen's award-winning documentary film Flee uses a mixture of animation and archival footage to tell the affecting account of Amin and his family, who fled Afghanistan for Scandinavia in the late '80s. Here, sound supervisor Edward Björner and re-recording mixer/sound mixer Tormod Ringnes discuss their approach to bridging the different visual storytelling styles by using sound.

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Interview by Jennifer Walden, photos courtesy of NEON

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Director Jonas Poher Rasmussen’s documentary film Flee has earned tons of industry recognition. Starting with Sundance’s Grand Jury Prize in the World Cinema Documentary section, it’s since racked up 82 award wins and 132 nominations, including three Oscar nominations, two BAFTA nominations, a Golden Globe nomination, an MPSE Award nom, and three Danish Film Awards wins – one going to supervising sound editor Edward Björner and re-recording mixer/sound mixer Tormod Ringnes for Best Sound.

In Flee, Amin reveals the true story of how he and his family fled Afghanistan by relying on sketchy human traffickers, braving inhumane conditions inside storage containers, being trapped in the haul of a sinking ship, and ultimately surviving but never reuniting. His story unfolds in animated imagery with interspersed clips of archival footage. The sound team needed to find a way to bridge the different visual styles and distinct legs of Amin’s journey, to support the telling of his story in a succinct and concise way, sonically.

Here, they talk about narrowing the sound perspective to keep the focus on Amin, using foley to draw the audience into his experience, adding sonic texture to the archival footage, working with surround and mono sound in the mix to evoke an emotional response, and more!

FLEE – Official Trailer

When did you get started on Flee? Where in the production process was the film at that time?

Re-recording mixer Tormod Ringnes

Tormod Ringnes (TR): I was first contacted quite early in the editing process. This is a co-production and I’ve been working with the Norweigan film company Mer Film; I’ve done lots of features in Scandanavia and Europe with them.

Jonas (the director) asked me early on to have a chat about Flee. We talked about the film and the feeling of always being on the run or fleeing – how we could create that feeling from Amin’s childhood and throughout the film, and how we could tell his story using sound.

I also had a chat with the editor on Flee, Janus Billeskov Jansen, who is a really great editor and very focused on using sound for storytelling. He edited the 2021 Oscar-winning film Another Round.

Sound supervisor Edward Bjorner

Edward Björner (EB): I got involved with the film when the edit was pretty much complete. We met at Edisen in Stockholm, and sat down and looked at the film together with the director.

TR: The composer was there as well. I’ve worked with composer Uno Helmersson on another project, and he’s so good.

So we all sat together and started to break down the film. It has four different types of storytelling with different visual techniques. There are the narrative sections when Amin is being interviewed by director Jonas Rasmussen. You have Amin’s memories of his childhood. You have the historical footage. And then there are the nightmares.

We wanted to combine those four different types of storytelling, to mix them together, and that was a challenge.

The narrative parts – the interviews – were recorded over a period of four years. They were recorded in different places: outside locations, and inside apartments in different places. We had to do some re-recording, some ADR. The director wanted to be authentic, of course. But we had so many different types of recordings recorded by the director himself, and we had to try to fit them together to make it believable and make it flow. That was quite tough.

Did you do the dialogue editing, Edward?

EB: No, I didn’t do the actual dialogue editing. That was in the capable hands of Jens Johansson.

Keeping the flaws in the recording helped to impart the feeling that this is his true story.

Due to the nature of the interviews (they are not studio recordings), when they came to me they still contained all types of other sounds, like ambiance noises, movement, small microphone bumps, etc. They weren’t perfect recordings. But that was one of the characteristics that turned out to be important to keep, to make it feel authentic and not a movie made with a narrative voiceover telling it. Keeping the flaws in the recording helped to impart the feeling that this is his true story. The imperfections give it life and make the story feel stronger because he’s telling it himself.

There are other voices though, like the police in Moscow banging on the door and telling Amin’s family to open up. There’s the voice of Amin’s uncle, often heard through the phone. Were those actors recorded in a studio?

TR: Yes, those actors were recorded in a studio. So we had those pristine recordings and the director’s interview recordings. The challenge was to make it all believable.

That was so important for Jonas, that the sound shouldn’t be perfect.

That was so important for Jonas, that the sound shouldn’t be perfect. That it should sound real. It’s better if the voices sound reverby instead of being too clean. If Amin turns away from the mic, Jonas wanted to keep that off-mic sound and also the sound of his movement. Jonas directed us to never take away the movement.

The film crosses time and space. Can you talk about your sonic choices for some key locations/times? For instance, Kabul in the 1980s versus Moscow around that time, what were some things you did to help set those apart sonically?

TR: When we talked about this with Jonas the first time, it was important for him that Amin’s childhood in Afghanistan was a beautiful place – that he remembered it being beautiful, but he couldn’t remember everything.

There was a scene where Amin and his mother are in the kitchen, and Amin is saying that he can remember certain details, like the touch of her hand putting a band-aid on his knee but he can’t remember her as a young mother. He can only remember her with grey hair. So we tried to emulate that with the sound. We picked sounds that we thought he might remember. During the mix, we highlighted sounds instead of playing everything.

During the mix, we highlighted sounds instead of playing everything.

We had done that on another film, a Pakistani film, where the memory of the character’s childhood in Pakistan was beautiful. It’s not like what we think about Afghanistan and Pakistan today, with car horns and city noise. It’s more tranquil; there are children playing. And that was important for this one, too.

EB: Yeah, for Amin’s childhood, we wanted to have a positive tone that reflected his childhood memories. We have pigeons, which his brother kept. We have joyful sounds of birds, laughter, and children playing with the backdrop of a bustling city with lively marketplaces.

We didn’t have to overpaint with sound – just set the stage.

At the same time, the story tells itself. We didn’t have to overpaint with sound – just set the stage. The way that Amin tells his story of childhood leads the audience in the right direction. So, it’s a balancing act of having a rich sound but not getting in the way.

TR: When we get to Moscow, it’s much colder and tougher. All the sounds of the phone ringing and the police knocking on the door, they’re unexpected and jarring. We play those louder than we typically would in the mix. It creates this feeling that they’re not safe.

The atmosphere of Moscow is cold and dark.

When Amin, his brother, and his mother flee Moscow, how did you use sound to help reinforce the dangerousness of this event? There are several legs of this journey, and each has its own unique threats – the snow and cold on the walk through the woods, and of course, the storm on the boat. How did you use sound to help add to the feeling of danger?

EB: The boat was one of the more dramatic parts of the movie, sound-wise. Once they were locked below deck, we needed to illustrate the increasing storm outside. The audience needed to know that the boat was in bad shape. They needed to know the motor broke down, to feel the stress of being locked in this small place as water gushes in. That was a great scene to work on.

The audience needed to know that the boat was in bad shape.

Amin’s storytelling there reveals his mother’s fear of drowning, and so the animation goes into this beautiful but tragic scene of bodies floating, as seen from below in the water. It’s a total shift away from the loud and dramatic reality of the ship’s metal creaks and pounding waves to a sad, ethereal moment with more suggestive underwater sound. I think it was really powerful.

TR: During the mix, we tried to feel the pressure and claustrophobic atmosphere of that scene. We put more sounds in the surrounds as compared to Moscow where the sound was quite mono. We wanted the audience to feel like they were in the hold of that boat, or to feel like they were under the water. We wanted the sounds in the surrounds to create a feeling of pressure.

We put more sounds in the surrounds as compared to Moscow where the sound was quite mono.

The music plays a big role there. The music cues were there before they locked the edit (as were some of the sounds). It’s so important to work with the right music and sounds during editing.

EB: We had almost a complete score while we were doing our sound edit for the film. It’s so good to work against the right music as this allows one to create and choose the right sounds in context. Sometimes the temp music changes and the sounds you have don’t work with the new music and you need to start over. But in this case, we had the score and were able to find the right tonality between sound and music which was especially important in the more abstract dreamlike scenes.

There’s a moment of joy when they spot the cruise ship, but ultimately, they’re picked up by the Estonian border police. How do you use sound to reinforce Amin’s experience here?

TR: When you hear the cruise ship captain make the announcement, that’s me. That was my voice.

But that scene was quite tricky. In the mix, that was the scene where we spent the most time. We shifted and worked with the layers so much, trying to keep the focus on Amin. That was our objective, to focus on how Amin is feeling and what his experience was like in that situation.

We shifted and worked with the layers so much, trying to keep the focus on Amin.

EB: The Estonian border police is a pretty scary scene. It goes from animation into the documentary footage, and that’s a reminder that this is real. What happened is true.

Then it goes into the black and white animated parts, with great sound design by Fredrik Jonsäter for the yelling with reversed sounds to give this eerie feeling of what Amin was going through – the confusion and intimidation he experienced.

The foley in the film really helped to pull you into what Amin was experiencing on a personal level, especially since the film was animated. You connect with his character through the foley, like the sound of his sandals as he’s running through his hometown in Afghanistan, or the sound of his shoes in the snow as they’re walking in the forest outside Moscow…

TR: Definitely. We spent a lot of time making it feel real. The foley was done by great foley artists, Rune van Deurs and Bengt Öberg.

EB: The foley definitely gives it life where you need it.

TR: There was a lot of foley done for the film, but we muted it and used it only to serve the story, to draw your focus – now you are with them, and now you’re over here. It was so important to pick our moments to use it.

There was a lot of foley done for the film, but we muted it and used it only to serve the story, to draw your focus…

For instance, during Amin’s childhood, there was a scene when he’s brushing his sister’s hair. We played the foley for that quite loud because that was an important thing that he remembered. There were also the foley sounds of his walkman and the sounds of his father’s watch.

The sound of the watch ticking was important because it ties back to when his father was taken. That sound comes up again in the nightmare.

You can have thousands of sounds for a scene, but if you take them away or pick out one sound to play, then the audience will follow that in the story.

There’s the foley sound of the necklace. So we picked out foley sounds that were important to Amin’s story.

With those small sounds, you can focus the audience’s attention on something. If you have a picture that’s six meters wide, and you play a sound for something small in the right corner, let’s say, then you will draw the viewer’s attention to that one thing. That’s the power that we have with sound. You can have thousands of sounds for a scene, but if you take them away or pick out one sound to play, then the audience will follow that in the story.

What was the most challenging scene to design?

EB: I don’t know if there was one scene. I think, as Tormod was saying before, the challenge was to figure out how to connect these four parts – how to make them work as one. That was the overall challenge, to be able to move from something archival into something that was very suggestive or abstract and make that flow back and forth without questioning it.

…the challenge was to figure out how to connect these four parts – how to make them work as one.

Obviously, Amin’s voice helps to bind those parts together. But finding the sound to support that and bring it all together was what we needed to figure out.

TR: Mix-wise, the most challenging scene was the boat scene we were just talking about. That was tough because there were different stories to tell at the same time. You have the people yelling and shouting about the water coming in. You have the motor breaking down and stopping.

We tried different sounds for the engine breaking down because it needed to be very clear what was happening. That event is only told through sound.

EB: That’s what is exciting about an animated film. You start with a blank page, sonically. You can basically do whatever you need to lead the story in the right direction.

TR: Early on in the sound editing and mix, there were some places in the sequence where it wasn’t clear what was happening. And it needed to be clear. So we did some tests of that scene to figure out the best use of sound to tell that story.

Dialogue intelligibility was a challenge in some places, but I like it because the film has this rough texture. It’s not perfect. But, it’s all about storytelling. That’s the nice thing.

Dialogue intelligibility was a challenge in some places, but I like it because the film has this rough texture. It’s not perfect.

The film has won several awards for filmmaking, editing, music, and sound (including ‘Best Sound’ at the 2022 Danish Film Awards) and numerous nominations (including three Oscar nominations and an MPSE Award for best sound editing in a feature documentary). But it’s not a big Hollywood film; it’s not a Marvel film with huge effects. It’s all about the storytelling. We knew while we were mixing it that this was a special film. It was so emotional. We knew it would garner recognition from our film industry peers and audiences. But we couldn’t have known just how much.

When the producer Maria Ekerhovd first called me about this project, she said, “I have this small animation film (compared to Disney). Do you think you want to do a mix on it for a couple of weeks?”

That was the start. And then, it just grew. I started talking with Jonas and I joined the sound crew early. And my interest in it just grew.

Can you talk about your approach to the mix? Obviously, dialogue is the most important element. But how did you paint in around that? What was your north star guiding your mix choice?

TR: The dialogue was most important and the music was second-most. But another key factor was how Amin felt in the scene. We were always conscious of playing sound from his perspective. The music was important, but there were so many storytelling sounds, also, that we needed to have.

We were always conscious of playing sound from his perspective.

The nightmare was really sound-driven and claustrophobic for the audience. We tried to make Moscow as cold as possible, and mono when they’re just waiting around. The childhood scenes were lively and beautiful. You have the daily life in Denmark, like the scene in Amin’s office with his fiancee dropping dishes into the sink. That sound is quite loud and jarring because Amin still feels like he’s on the run. He’s never relaxed, even if things are normal. He’s always escaping. He hasn’t been able to tell his story; he’s always running from it. When we have these scenes in Copenhagen, we tried to put in things that make it feel not safe and calm.

That’s an interesting point about having the loud sounds in calm moments to emphasize that Amin never feels relaxed. That he’s always on-edge…

TR: It’s all those small things, those small details – normal things like the cat, the dishes in the sink.

To combine all these sections – so that they flow into each other – was tough. Like in Moscow, we tried to keep it mono but when the police knock on the door, it was a mixture between a nightmare and reality. So we had to make those sounds bigger. We had these four different storytelling techniques that we brought together through the sound.

…in the archive parts with actual footage, we kept the sound very narrow to make it feel authentic…

EB: The film is full of these contrasts. As stated earlier, in the archive parts with actual footage, we kept the sound very narrow to make it feel authentic (like from an older newscast) so I used a few chosen lo-fi sounds to illustrate what’s happening but nothing more than necessary.

Then we have scenes like the nightmare, where the sounds used are suggestive, wide, and lush. There is a contrast. These parts feel different. It was an effective way of using simple means to support the story.

From L to R: Uno (Composer) , Tormod RIngnes (Re-recording mixer) , Jonas Rasmussen (Director), Monica Hellstrøm (Producer)

What are you most proud of in terms of your sound work on Flee?

TR: That the film is having an emotional impact. The whole project was a journey for me.

There’s an English version of the film (not the original Danish film with English subtitles), and that was like an opposite challenge because you have actors recording all the lines in a booth. They’re perfect recordings. But for Jonas, it was important to create the same feeling we did in the original version.

There’s an English version of the film…and that was like an opposite challenge because you have actors recording all the lines in a booth.

So, we did three days of recording actor Riz Ahmed (which I attended via Zoom) and Riz was lying on the couch and Jonas started interviewing him just as he’d done with Amin in the original. Riz would read the answers.

We had to re-edit everything to fit it in. And then we had to make the tracks sound dirty, to make it sound authentic like the originals. We tried to keep all the small imperfections, like the breathing sounds and mic bumps. We tried to keep as much of that as possible. We used iZotope RX Ambience Match to add ambience from the original recordings to the dubbed recordings.

We tried to keep all the small imperfections, like the breathing sounds and mic bumps.

Because of our experience working with the original recordings, the dubbed version came out quite well. I’m happy that we could achieve that – that you don’t think about the sound being “bad” or “good.” You’re just into the story.

EB: I think that we managed to make it feel intimate and personal. Amin’s story had that quality so you want to preserve it while supporting the story. I think we managed to create an authentic feeling. And the way that this film is being received, it feels like his story comes across in a strong way. It’s a special film.

A big thanks to Edward Björner and Tormod Ringnes for giving us a behind-the-scenes look at the sound of Flee and to Jennifer Walden for the interview!

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